Altruism… Does it truly exist?

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    • Markshire PCs:

    ironically as I logged on to post a few thoughts and ask one specific question, I saw Monty’s post and I realize that maybe you are all being a little harsh. Is that absolute stand what you would teach your children about compassion? forgiveness? love? I have spent these last few months in quiet introspection, mostly playing Mass Effect, but I have come to realize that I possess the ability to forgive most people of most things. I have spent time rebuilding bridges that I have burned, and urgeing others to do the same. I see the path to the future is closely tied to the past. the point is, I ask this question:

    When should you give up on someone?

    I will offer up some examples from my life and others I know and have known. here are three senarios, and an example for each.

    1) a friend who falls into a life of crime. I will use X and Y for the names.
    X &Y have been friends for 20 years, the past 10 Y has been involved with a gang in their naborhood. Y is always getting arested for this or that and was kicked out of his parents house at the age of 17. he is now 25 and lives with a crackwhore. he will call X up and need to be bailed out, or stop by his home/work and begg for money.

    2)a spouse has been unfaithfull repeatedly. I will use he and she for this one.
    he and she have been togther for 20 years and have 4 children, he has had affairs with 3 different times. he was cought every time and begged forgiveness and claimed to be very sorry. she forgave him every time and buried the pain and stayed true and supported him. this time he swears he learned his lesson. and she is what he really wants.

    3) a doughter gets involved in drugs.
    she started in her early teens and continued through her thirties. she has three kids with two different men, the first being a crack dealer, the seccond also drug addict, though recovering. the seccond and father of two of the kids has taken all three away and kicked her to the streets. after five years she showes up on her parents porch begging for help.

    are all three of these examples simmiler? WWJD? what does the Torra(sp?) say? the corran(also bad sp)? confusing stuff these emotions……


    • Markshire PCs:

    Complex issues Boost. I’m fairly sure the Koran (or Qur’an) would only have one thing to say about all these situations and it would involve having your hands tied behind your back, being buried up to your waist and then having stones thrown at you till you die. There is far far less compassion in some cultures than in the western world; we are in general a very /very/ forgiving lot. Who is to say “they” are wrong and “we” are right… I know where /I/ stand but in the end it is, like you say, a question of personal values. Sounds like your quiet time has been valuable…. and *cough* I hope you enjoyed Mass Effect!

    And as an after thought, I think Markshire would probably fall on the rough justice side of the equation too!

    • Markshire PCs:

    Depends on each individual really. I tend to forgive my friends their faults so long as they remain my friend. The second they betray me I am much less likely to be their friend. The cheating spouse thing, dunno, 3 times would be two times too many for me. I can forgive once, but not again.

    meh, religion.

    – mule

    • Markshire PCs:

    @mule wrote:

    Depends on each individual really.

    I’d have to agree here. As for the spouse thing, once is one too many times for me. If you’re that unhappy, leave and be done with it.

    I’m divorced. I did so because I was unhappy and didn’t see things getting any better. There’s something to be said about living with someone before you get married and know what you’re getting into.

    As for my friends, I also feel very much as Mule does. I know I’m not perfect, and try to treat others as I’d like to be treated.

    My .02 cents.


    • Markshire PCs:

    People are personally responsible for their actions. Whether or not a parent teachers them “lessons” or guides them in certain ways, it is the child’s responsibility (when they get older or as they are growing up) to decide what decisions are right or wrong…that being said…

    id bail a friend out of jail…providing they pay me back promptly…if not…i wont do it again..

    i dont do cheating….thankfully i found someone that feels the same way…

    although its the individual’s responsibility and i tend not to feel sorry for people that make poor decisions…but if it was a friend of mine…i would at least try to show them the “light.”

    i think i kind of contradict myself…but im pretty positive other people do it too…there are lines i will cross and lines i will not

    • Markshire PCs: Grottle, Gruzk, Ashimar

    1. Crime and punishment: Doesn’t matter the individual. If you do the crime, you do the time. Am I perfect. No. If I am arrested for something I would certainly stand up for what I did and take the punishment. It’s fairly simple. Do I punish others for their crimes against the law? Not my department. If my friend is in trouble they get help. Again fairly simple.

    2. Cheating and forgiveness: Been here. Done this. Once was forgivable. Twice was just me being dumped on. Certainly wasn’t going to happen anymore. Personally, I am loyal to all; Loves, Friends, Family, and Job.

    3. Children: I have two. Both of which are nearing graduation from High School. Both of which I’d die for. It’s hard to truly understand until you are a parent what extent you’d go through for them.

    I’ve had glimpses of my extremes. I know where I stand in the world. Some ask, “WWJD?” I simply ask, “what do I need to do?”

    The lines you cross are the crosses you bear.

    • Markshire PCs:

    It’s about patterns of behaviour. A mistake outside of a normal patern of behaviour is forgivable. If there is life long pattern of bad or destructive behavior, they need to be cut off.

    1. I would not bail him out and never give him any money. I’ve faced this circumstance several times in my life and each time I cut ties with the destructive party.
    2. In this case if the act was consumated, that’s a deal breaker and a broken vow…the spouse goes.
    3. I would do whatever I could for my children, but at some point the greater focus should be on the grand children.

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