- February 10, 2008 at 3:27 pm #32806
(forward if needed, prefer off-forum: sunny’s beliefs not everyone’s business)
Sunny is increasingly entangled in “political” struggles in Markshire that she has no context to evaluate—largely those centered on belief systems and religion. She has made purely personal in-roads to Kayla and many other townfolk (Ceorlas, Cor, and Brind chars mainly) but requires an IG introduction to Markshire gods, druidic beliefs, etc.
Sunny is NG, but she is foreign—the pantheon and the Law/Chaos struggle are strange to her. Her beliefs are in yin-yang oneness—her “G” damned good, but her “N” more a mix of lawful traits and chaotic ones than actively and consciously pursuing balance between the two. Playful and independent, she is also fully enmeshed in the codes of honor and propriety of her culture.
Below is a brief write-up of Sunny-think.
Current struggles: father (like all Markshirians, seemingly), fatalism
One of Sun’s defining traits: seeking of oneness in the yin-yang sense. Making Markshire Sunny and making Sunny fit in Markshire. Not making them the same, obviously, but making them coherent, compatible, and complementary while retaining and celebrating differences. Key portion of this campaign given backstory—race relations. Key tools for achieving this: humor (intentional, unintentional linguistics/behavior, and “Sun-intentional”—pretending unintentional), mucking in against odds and expectations (“you stay back there with your bow”—charges in with rapier or skinning knife, etc.), and elven view of time/history.
The oneness and paradoxes of Sun:
Loves jokes and tricks—concern about propriety, serious about honor
Fastidious about personal appearance—but skins and butchers animals, cures and tans skins, bloody and skin-challenging work (lotion-quest?)
Frail of body (CON) but strong of heart (G)
Flighty and easily distracted (WIS), but focused on oneness
Bubbly and good-natured but slow and halting of speech (in Markshire common at least)
On serious topics, has an eastern, round-about, subtle way of approaching issues; on more frivolous or transparent subjects, she can be brash to the point of rudeness
No gods. Concept known and understood, but deemed foreign and somewhat barbaric (ahem). Belief is more along lines of reincarnation of souls, towards a perfection of self. Prior forms are never remembered, nor is there any hierarchy. If you live one life poorly, you do not necessarily come back as a rat—you may come back as a rat in any case. Your life-goal as the rat would be to most harmoniously integrate that rat into the oneness of self, others and environment. Be the best rat you can be, in one sense. And that is an entirely individual thing—the hunter feels no remorse at killing his prey, which is another soul: he has simply been the best hunter he can be, and being so he also feels no joy at helping the prey be the best prey it can be. Those who fail to adequately “advance” themselves in a life are not reincarnated, but are instead condemned for a period to a spirit-world inhabited by those who have perfected themselves: a very frightening world to those concerned with balance and harmony, filled with a dizzying variety of spirit-creatures of pure-evil, pure-good, pure-law, and pure-chaos. Since these spirit-beings cannot truly harm each other, they most commonly concern themselves with tormenting, harassing, and proselytizing the souls awaiting reincarnation; occasionally the spirit-beings find an unperfected soul amusing enough or interesting enough that they pursue it after reincarnation into the living-world with purposes foul or fair for the individual. These creatures have mortal forms in the real world—often very powerful forms—but they simply return to the spirit-world if killed. She believes on first encounter that Vastion is one of these spirit-beings—a “perfected” evil bug.
GendFebruary 10, 2008 at 7:31 pm #55270
Well, and interesting character. I wish I could get NWN1 working to the point where I could bring in Nordbert at least for the spy part. The part on her beliefs about the spirits, I wonder how the whole being sent back by Garm thing is perceived by her. Here the greater people aren’t allowed to die and be reincarnated, they’re kept around and brought back. That’s an interesting conundrum there. The part about her view Vastion as the “perfect” evil bug might be something to play with too.
Those are my thoughts.
– muleFebruary 10, 2008 at 7:59 pm #55271
What is your problem Mule? Did you get an Intel chip? My 2.6ghz AMD Dualcore has not had issue with running NWN on crack. I have not had to make any changes. I think you fear NWN 1 now. Too long away, you forgotten what Nordbert looks like and make up excuses to help avoid reality.
Other than that, I have not seen all of this yet in the RP. I have seen Spyman get envolved and contribute to conversation, and drama. With Sar and Red(faith) popping in as of late, they have helped prompte some more verbal drama avenues. I just skimmed the post and was awe sturck by Mules post, so I will re read it more detailed and see where I can help, but please if all have opinions to suggest to me, please do. It will help me.
I do think she needs to meet Opi. I just feel she needs to steered to the fact her “asian” portrayle doesn’t exist in this world, but can in the sense there is ‘tribal’ and nomatic people with their own beleifs that aren’t as ‘civilized’ as the Urban cultures have come to beleive in the gods. Not broken elven druidisms and other broken babaric superstitions. Again your help pointing to the right god and manaor of pushing would help.February 11, 2008 at 8:18 pm #55272
I have an AMD dualcore too (which is well documented), it’s not that. It is the Nvidia card, remember I told you about that problem?
Anyway, I don’t know if you need to “steer” her anywhere, let her character go and be what he wants her to be. Just if she starts spouting off about this or that belief most of the NPC’s would react to her like she’s nuts because what she believes is definitely not what they believe. For all they know she is some crazy barbarian. That’s how i’d handle it. However, if she doesn’t talk about her beliefs publically, leave it alone. Now, her gods? Well I am not sure to be honest , her mythos (he he) is very different from the Norse one. If I had to stick her into a pidgeon hole i’d say Hel or maybe Odin.
– muleFebruary 12, 2008 at 2:16 am #55273
I did say I skimmed it, upon my full reading, I was off point.February 12, 2008 at 7:54 pm #55274
SpymasterGend humbly requests Shadowdancer consideration for Sun-Ok Cheng.
Bio support for application fairly obvious–though Sun-world Shadowdancer perhaps more of a camouflage/commando than traditional definition. Though the entertainer “troupe” part of the definition is clearly not applicable, Sun does attempt through humor to cheer colleagues and entertain, also resolve conflict (especially racial and social) and build consensus in an eastern way. Would also foresee several personal issues for Sun coming together in shadowdancer development.
First, fatalism. Sun came to Markshire a runaway, a rogue, a hider. Was inspired by friends (nitha, tam, mezano) to fight (for good in her mind)–developed in fighter class. After taking severe beatings in that mold from Cyclops and giants–Sun has searched soul and determined that stealth and her Serpent potential form the best way she can help friends and do good.
Second, religion/beliefs. Sun is still overwhelmed with new pantheon and belief systems. However, she has visited Elvidnir and thus seen proof that at least in Markshire the Markshire gods are real. Her reconciliation of that with her own beliefs is yet to be played out but will most likely be an amalgamation. Along those lines, shadowdancer Summon shadow ability will most likely be for her not a traditional undead spirit but the worldly manifestation of a “perfected” soul from her native spirit-world–possibly even that of her father. Evergreen Sr. remains to her a manifestation of a perfected evil soul–it is unlikely this perception will ever change, so she will almost certainly retain some of her original beliefs.
Third, alternatives. At this point in time, largely through their own insensitivity and self-involvement, Sun’s druid ties–Sar and Kayla–are in jeopardy. Their beliefs had represented probably the closest Markshire counterpart to Sun’s own guiding principles of oneness in the yin-yang sense. Thus, at this point in time she feels repelled by that as a “career choice.”
Fourth, overall environment. Sun’s natural instinct is to resolve tensions and build consensus with a goal toward the greater good–she is NG but does not actively seek balance between chaos and law per se–instead she exhibits some lawful traits (eg honor) and some chaotic (eg jokes and pranks). As such she is a natural bridge between at least some factions–but she has come to recognize that she is also a very small entity between those two poles of Law and Chaos, easily squashed by either. Survival in that polar environment (pun unintended) requires walking a very careful line–just like the shadowdancer’s walk between light and dark. And is consistent with Serpent purpose for oppressed minority as laid out in bio.
It is doubtless a slightly different approach than normal to the prestige class. I have little doubt, however, that Sun could pull it off, and I would foresee her taking at least 7 levels in it, probably all prior to lvl 20 (currently 10, just made xp for 11–could commence anytime).
Players to contact regarding rp: Ceorlas, Brindisium, Corgano, Sarkhan, Valgrimm.
Thanks for the consideration,
GendFebruary 12, 2008 at 10:02 pm #55275
tempting me to write the damn code to fix this problem myself with my computer.. yeah tall order.
Anyway, first SD in a while to come through. I haven’t seen her RP obviously so I have no opinion on the qualifications for the SD. What i’ve read here sounds pretty good, but i’m not sure. I like the movement towards Markshirian gods and beliefs in the character. As to learning how to be an SD, seems like she’s gonna need help. Are there any SD’s still around for that?
– muleFebruary 13, 2008 at 4:27 am #55276
Domf has agreed to be available for Sunny.
Is there a DM willing to coordinate a CDS to start this?
Domf is available Tuesdays and possibly Monday nights.
Once he starts he can help decide if she’s a solid candidate and then we can vote.February 25, 2008 at 4:22 am #55277
Domf has interacted with Sunny.
Says she’s solid.
Any votes on this?
Gend is a solid RPer and does the work. So I think, we can say yes after training with one for a period of time.February 25, 2008 at 12:58 pm #55278
Well then I approve.February 26, 2008 at 2:44 am #55279
Sorry a bit late. Family issues and girlfriend.. having fun away from home.
Being the only active DM in my timeslots that I seen, in NWN1…. I will work on this.
No worries mule, we got your excuse… *looks around for them other DM’s*March 4, 2008 at 1:49 am #55280
Per Rasbedian’s recent post to Bulletin Board, Sun-Ok and Kamas are attempting to organize an expedition to locate and study the malar beast. Osay has also indicated an interest.
Sun-Ok wants to find where the malar are (source for pelts, economic/tradeskill interest) and what makes them tick (stealth/stalking ability). I imagine Osay’s interests coincide, and Kamas’ are more academic, especially given the interplanar or interdimensional possibilities suggested by malar bag’s greater weight reduction.
Part of how this plays out will depend on “the nature of the beast.” My recollection was that the malar panther was a sort of extra-dimensional creature–thus Sun’s interest as she explores stealth in character development. Kamas postulated a different “lore”: a shapeshifter between bat, panther, and ravening beast forms. Either or both give excellent options for RP.
I’m picturing a 3-part event or project. First, assembling the team and equipping/organizing the expedition. Might require a char (PC or NPC) with more anatomy/physiology expertise. Special equipment might be needed for capture/dissection/preservation or in-field tailor-craft. Perhaps Lomion or Tobur–who sell the pelts and claim to have hunted them–would serve as guide to habitat.
Part 2 would be the expedition itself. Observation: stalking the stalker. Capture and/or corpse retrieval, possibly of varying forms if a shapeshifter. Preservation of same if study not to be done in the field. Acquisition of standard craftable pelts not a priority.
Part 3 I see as applying the knowledge gained–in terms of stealth experience (not sure how to reflect that exactly) and tailoring. I’m thinking along the lines of a tailoring end-product for each of the participants, incorporating perhaps some of the features of each of the beast’s forms. Not an ongoing “production” item that way, as it would be rp-ed from special parts, say, bat-form sinews that only drop during the expedition. Something like bat sinews (spot/listen from sonar), panther hide (hide/silent), and beast bone perhaps for sole (property thoughts: standard boot dodge AC bonus, fear effect or protect, rage feat?). A suggestion follows–know it’s a lot of properties but mostly small skill bonuses: Malar Stalking Boots (+1 listen, +1 spot, +2 hide, +2 silent, immunity to fear). Given the nature of the malar, could actually be a different item for each participant. Assume Osay might also be interested in the crafting side of it.
My schedule fairly flexible, GMT -5. Best after 10pm and weekends, but can do others with some notice.
GendMarch 4, 2008 at 1:49 am #55281
[simpler than previous request]
As Sun-Ok studies stealth, she has noted that the marvelous mithril small shield she carries has a degree of shininess and a tendency to ring out when bumping against other equipment. She has also examined at length the muted and blackened equipment available through “merchants” Juster and Rebecca.
She believes it is well within her crafting abilities to fashion a simple dark cover for the shield, perhaps of thin, supple, and lightweight wolf leathers, wrapping the edges to deaden sound. She imagines such a cover would negate the shield’s impact on stealth (at least for a small shield) while likely adding back to it the weight saved by mithril construction.
While such a simple non-magical solution would seem eminently repeatable, she has no desire to make it as a “production” item for sale or trade, and further assumes that maintenance of the cover would be incorporated in the standard maintenance of all equipment (repairing nicks, gashes, etc.) that adventurers perform unthinkingly.
Envisioned result: Sun-Ok Cheng’s mithril small shield “Wolf” (model small round type as mithril, darkened and matte: ideal aesthetic would be dark gray and light gray yin-yang symbol), +2 AC shield, +1 move silent, +1 hide in shadows.
GendMarch 7, 2008 at 2:36 am #55282
Thanks for the considered responses.
1&2: Points taken re SD app, it’s just taking a little longer than I’d thought. I’m used to single-player–just qualify and click. I “qualified” at char lvl 7, but waited on the app until I’d fleshed out in forum the bio that was in my head. And I am serious about the commitment to the SD class–I really do want to get at least 7 levels in it, preferably with at least 6 pre-epic, and that preference at least is starting to look, well, unlikely. HIPS may be the defining, unique feature of the class, but SD has much more to offer.
Which is another way of saying that I’m not looking for any kind of cheese, playing it if approved or banking. 1 Level is what I have right now, and it’s mostly a question of how to take it for the build I’m picturing given ambiguous timing on app. From forum I understand T’s concerns on banking, certainly, but the mechanics of “training” or “discovery” to advance are just not present in game, the xp rewards and levels just arbitrary numbers. Kill this many giants or craft this many items and you go up. So any valid rp reason–even something as trivial perhaps as making the valkyries sing at a friend’s wedding–would seem reasonable for at least a short delay in leveling. I held off taking Sun’s first fighter level, too–expressly so Sun could communicate/explain her life/career decision to Nitha when taking it.
I’m also not suggesting that my/Sun’s understanding of the SD class is “correct” and certainly not definitive–rather that the abilities offered by the class lend themselves to different interpretations as to their in-game reality, nature and origin, and thus to different options for rp. Just as the rogue class offers options slanted toward thievery, swashbuckling, assassination, etc. Just as being Yakuza is not precisely like being Mafia. I’m also saying, I guess, that any given character is likely to interpret the lessons of life (i.e., class advancement) based on their own experiences, world-view, etc., and I was trying to picture in advance Sun’s possible take on the discoveries she might make.
Having articulated that a little more thoroughly, and taking your comments in hand, exploring stealth right now is what Sun is about, so I’ll just go with that and let the opportunities for (self-) discovery arise…
3: Ha! Wasn’t sure what Domf was doing when he took me down there either, but went with the flow. She definitely has the rogue skills but not the bent as you indicate for rampant theft or assassination. Thought Dram and Sun were going to have a nice philosophical discussion of light and dark and a more pragmatic discussion of life in Markshire summoning undead (I assume SD shadow summons are not granted an exemption to the rampant undead intolerance). You’re right–any self-respecting thieves’ guild would distrust her on sight–maybe even bring her in for a “chat” given the demonstration of trap-skills at Dren’s, etc. Your intervention appreciated in that regard–I think–Sun’s still not sure about those guys. Fun in any case, and with a little effort maybe I can keep Domf’s interest. As you say, for the characters it may end up being sort of a “Kill Bill” apprenticeship–eek, my sensei’s an egotistical jerk! With a stomach problem!
4: That’s a bit more workable then–probably for you too. Hope I can make it Friday.
5: Yep, was carrying a lot of bags already, but was just coming back from a hunt, bags loaded with pelts and other space with meat. If she has to get Durok another malar bag for a new one I guess she’ll do it. Just hate paying for the engine backfiring. Mostly, I didn’t want to get the CDS for it approved and then have no shield on hand when you walked in. Who’d think I was cheesey then?
This is the response I got from some questions.
1) SD prestige app still pending afaik. Not sure if there’s a formal response–kind of assumed Dram’s prior guidance was part of the process, though guild membership a little less necessary as I was looking at it. Have banked a level to do that appropriately, but not sure if that’s okay or the way you all see the training playing out–would bank any number and take them slowly if it meant better rp, even if that means missing some fun in Arik on fridays. General advice by way of dm/moderator to new player appreciated.
2) Along same lines, it’s apparent that Dram’s embracing darkness interpretation of SD class a little different from Sun’s–he showed her darkness has its own existence, and is not just absence of light, but her inclination would be a reconciliation of light and dark, a yin-yang oneness resulting in…shadow, and safety in either. I guess what I’m asking for is some indication–with response on prestige class if that is formally issued–that such an interpretation works.
3) If Dram is to play guiding role in either SD development or guild membership, I’d like to make sure we keep Domf entertained as a player–anything I can do to further that, please let me know. Sure you’ll see me working at that in-game, but Dram is appropriately mysterious, so it’s hard to know what he may want out of it.
4) 3-day deadline is realtime? Or more of a general don’t-dawdle? 3 days of Markshire time probably already gone. Don’t want to cramp your time or monopolize it running up to Grippli-blight either.
5) Have a minor tailoring CDS request out to make Sun’s small mithril shield stealth-neutral like thieve’s shield with a darkened leather cover, add some weight back to it to compensate. Problem is, no more small mithril shield. Ever have a near-full inventory, quickslot a weapon-change, and end up dropping your shield? Happened to me a couple times in single-player, too–must be engine problem–but shield kind of turns phantom–even when you restructure inventory and pick it up it’s not quite right. Item was gone when I logged back in after reset today. Can harass Durok into making another, lay out some cash for a replacement, or whatever. If request goes through, let me know.
I basicly told her what I think we think should happen for a person to acheive such a feat. A self evolution into an ability that is there, she just needs to find the way she can make it happen. Like finding how o use “fire Starter ability” you never knew existed or had. She is working with Domf and I have her on a mission from Engman. She is not a rogue, she is not really an assasin for hire either. So… he has asked her to scam something from the Stewart at Stonemark. Use her female persuasion and cunning to get something he holds close and on his person. Without being persued or arrested. She has to flirt it off of him. Sorta.
She then has to do 3 more tasks for Engman and can have entrance to the Pickles but she will not be part of the ‘gang’.March 7, 2008 at 2:40 pm #55283
Well if she’s willing to do rogue’y things for Engman you should make her pert of the gang. Yeti is primarily a thieves guild, granted, but there’s room for spies too. She might not like Isaias though. Make sure to play him as an ass and supremely confident.
I heard you took 5k gold from Dram for bringing her in. Did he introduce her as fresh meat or just try to sneak her in?
– muleMarch 8, 2008 at 5:53 pm #55284
He just snuck her in and then when caught/confronted by the guards in the Yeti.. he copped a plea about a new submission. I know what was going on, he was going to take her to see Pickles. Then the DM caught him.. so the spoken agenda was let known. Spymaster wasn’t even sure where or why they were going down there at first. IT was more of “Come with me, let me show ya something.”
Iasis wanted to rough him up. Engman fined him, then reminded him that Gargoyle makes the decision on who can come down and who cannot, it being part of some agreement of the Yeti being there. So… bypassing PROCEDURE was the big issue.
I sent PM to Spy about a visualztion I had for her being on the right path to SD. Standing and walking along a fence. MS on one side, her village on the other. Both real realities but neither make sense to her. Trying for one side only ends up in stradeling the fence and going no where, following the fence and learning from both side to make a new conclusion rather than one from one side wins (is correct).
My thinking exactly–she’s on the margin, finding a path, reconciling seeming opposites. Which is not to say that any transition she may make to SD will be either Markshirian or native to her–only that she is likely to interpret it that way, in terms of yin-yang as she has been raised to construe things for a century. True of most of her life in Markshire, not just class selection: religion, law/chaos, etc.
SD from her tradition is defensive and survival-oriented for example. A hidden strategy of an oppressed minority. [less chance for cheese–do you hear?]. HIPS there not a magic trick at all–but the outgrowth of an organic oneness with place, light and dark. The same result, perhaps, but with different ends and means and thus almost certainly a different but still mystical flavor. But at this point, that is all in her head (and possibly a bit innate), and her body is in Markshire. Which is not to say that every “native” Markshirian SD should be created or played identically either, just that there is inherent variability, and no academy to provide regimentation, knowledge and training. Nor should there be, as the variances I think would only enhance the roleplaying experience. Of course, that’s my take, but maybe it shows how I the player am thinking–constantly–about playing her.March 10, 2008 at 12:25 pm #55285
lol three SD’s and each has a different take on it. Alright, well that interpretation is fine by me but i’m not the final judgment on anything.
On the fine subject, well if that’s your take on the situation it’s fine by me. 5000 gold isn’t anything to me, however it irked Dram enough for him to tell me about it. Remember people are very sensitive about having stuff manipulated or taken from their inventory.March 11, 2008 at 1:42 am #55286
I didn’t yank coin from anyone. He layed it out on the floor. But basicly your saying I shouldn’t enforce any sorta law/order/code/ethics? There wasn’t time for a task or errand that is beneath him to send him on. He didn’t want a quick beating by Isais.. what is ther eleft to do to send the message home that taking people that aren’t apart of the guild into a secure place.
Course Troll has millions of coin due to the Chest exploite some time ago… Did Nordbert also have millions? Dram coulda had millions too. I can’t tell as a DM.March 12, 2008 at 12:49 am #55287
well if that’s your take on the situation it’s fine by me. 5000 gold isn’t anything to me
You should read closer. I don’t care. But, the very fact that Dram said something to me means something. He’s an easy going guy, takes things in stride. He’d also be the first person to say to me that I shouldn’t talk to you about it or mention it. That’s why I asked your take on it too. If you felt he was just sneaking her to pickles, then ya slap him around. If he was brining her to Engman for recruitment, then no don’t punish him. I know there’s a fine line there and it’s hard to tell, it was your call.
The troll has millions from crafting, looting, and such. That which he gained from the chest bug I willingly gave up and told T about. Nordbert was flat broke last time I played him, it’s hard to earn loot when you pay more in bolts than you make. And yes, you can tell a characters net worth as a DM.. if they’re holding it on them, which they have to be with the chest deposit shut down.
– muleMarch 12, 2008 at 2:24 am #55288
I can’t tell as a DM.
The updated and added Examine shows gold and XP. The one to the left of the Character Sheet.
Future Reference.March 12, 2008 at 2:34 am #55289
Somewhat back to the topic…
I don’t have an issue with people bringing in prospects for Engman to consider.
It would be better for them to leave them with Vinnie the Kobold who’s been waiting for an audience with Engman for years. He eats mice.
There’s no set process aside from the established “Engman’s Test” for joining the guild.
However, it is suitable for someone to sponsor someone to the guild and pay a ransom for their consideration. The ransom would be returned upon the candidate’s full acceptance.
Also, a thieves guild isn’t just a bunch of people with Rogue levels. There are toughs or thugs (fighters) for extortion and enforcement. There are “contractors” for hire who provide specialized skills (mages or even clerics). There might even be guides or transportation experts (druids and rangers) and other possible informants.
The real topic …
Plain and simple: Is Sunny worthy of SD?
From what I have heard from those she interacts with, my vote is yes. Provided someone RPs it out with her.
Let’s get the vote completed. All DMs should vote based on the information provided and any contact you’ve had via Players or in person.March 12, 2008 at 2:11 pm #55290
I vote yes again, from what i’ve heard as well.
Also, if she becomes and SD she should be in like Flynn as far as the Yeti is concerned, if she accepts that is.
– muleMarch 14, 2008 at 1:30 am #55291
Ok. will carry on with a yes. I vote yes as well.April 13, 2008 at 3:02 am #55292
Sun has been given the SD. With CDS and some on going guaidance, ther eis great progress. Her biography has een slow to refelect such, but is in the works I am told.
Dram has been somewhat of a lag to her plans with his absences.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.